73 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[budo_seiken]

Wlasnie skonczylem ogladac Shockwave , krotko o spornej walce.
Royce od poczatku dazy do gardy , jednak Yoshida , mocno stojac na nogach umiejetnie trzyma Royca , wyraznie dazac do leg lock , w koncu doprowadza do tego jednak Gracie w tym samym czasie rowniez zaklada mu leg locka , nic jednak z tego nie wychodzi.Royce jeszcze raz probuje wejsc do gardy , Yoshida jest w dosiadzie , Royce probuje "clock choke" , przekreca sie , Yoshida prubuje "Kimure" , nie wychodzi , wyciaga Royca i probuje zakladac mu sporny "hammer lock".
Royce nie jest w gardzie , ani w polgardzie , widac ze choke Yoshidy nie jest pelny , , Royce wypracowuje mala otwor na zlapanie oddechu , prubuje wjesc tam reka ...i koniec sedzia przerywa walke.
Sedzia byl z drugiej strony , nie widzial ze Royce ciagle pracowal , moim zdaniem duza pomylka.
PO walce na ringu zamieszanie , Royce szrpie sie z MAttem Humme , wkoncu ciagnie Yoshide do sedziow i pyta czy Yoshida czul ze on klepal , oczywiscie odpowiada ze nie.Wszyscy komentatorzy i Quadros i Rutten definitywnie twierdza ze nie byla zadnego choke , takie jest rowniez moje zdanie.

[budo_fiodor]

Wywiad z yoshida:



PRIDE Fighting Championships: It's been a couple of days since the event. How do you feel now?

Hidehiko Yoshida: Nothing special. Just relaxed a little bit. I had to go to my dojo yesterday. I went in at about 2pm, did some light training, taught the children and adults' classes and was there until about 9pm. Not much change from the usual.





PRIDE: What do you think about the reaction (to the match)?

Yoshida: I'm trying not to look at newspapers or television so I'm not really concerned about it.

PRIDE: What do the people around you think (of the match)?

Yoshida: The people who were cheering me on are incredibly happy. Everyone in my dojo told me "congratulations."

PRIDE: Do you feel that your final preparations went well?

Yoshida: In Judo, you know your opponent's level. This was a completely different world. I had no idea how much I was supposed to do of anything. So, I worked on striking and judo like I have never done before and gave it all I had.

PRIDE: Were you nervous when you began the match?

Yoshida: I'm always nervous but I forgot about it when the fight began.

PRIDE: Did it bother you that there were so many demands, right before the fight, to change the rules this way and that?

Yoshida: No, not really. Any rules are fine. We weren't really asked for this rule or that rule so we didn't really worry about it.

PRIDE: Did the striking rule have any effect?

Yoshida: Well, it became easier for me when no striking to the head was decided. I think if it had been allowed, I would have been able to deal with it, though. I didn't really worry about it.

PRIDE: Did the fight go as you expected?

Yoshida: Yes, I think it went about as I expected. I figured that if we clinched, he would pull me in and I practiced for that. When we went into the clinch, I knew about how much power he had and it wasn't scary at all.

PRIDE: So you were able to fight calmly?

Yoshida: Well, I've only done judo until now so I was a little confused by the leg locks.

PRIDE: It looked like you really had the heel hold locked in.

Yoshida: Maybe he felt it. I thought to myself "it's in." but his joints are limber so it was difficult to finish it.

PRIDE: And your leg was also attacked.

Yoshida: That didn't hurt very much. He was holding my gi so I couldn't pull my leg out. I was thinking about how I should attack from there.

PRIDE: You said that you when you first clinched, you knew how much power he had. What do you think about Royce now that you've fought him?

Yoshida: I knew that he wouldn't give up from a joint lock so I was always thinking of getting a choke on him. To tell the truth, I'd rather have thrown him from the standing position and then move into a choke or a joint lock. But, before I could do anything, he pulled me down. I could feel that he had a lot of leg strength. A lot of stubbornness.

PRIDE: Were you being careful after you went to the ground?

Yoshida: Of course. After the pulled me down, he went for my leg so I was careful about where I put my legs. After that, I moved out of that position and looked for places to attack him.

PRIDE: You had side-position in the end. Was that easy to get?

Yoshida: Once, I got that position, it was easy. I expected him to fight back more. Really, once I got over his leg, I got the position very easily and relaxed.

PRIDE: You went from side position to the mound and finally got a sleeve choke. Before that, you were going for an arm lock. Had you been practicing that a lot?

Yoshida: That's a part of judo. I went to side position but one of my legs was still stuck so the arm lock wouldn't work. Then I worked my hand around to the back of his head and he let me do it fairly easily. After that, it was just like practice. I couldn't believe that he would let me do that so easily.

PRIDE: Did you practice sleeve chokes when you were active in judo?

Yoshida: No, as you can see, my ground work is not very good. (laughing) Lately, since the fight was decided, I thought about how I could possibly win and ultimately, it would have to be a choke. I practiced many other chokes and I think it paid off.

PRIDE: Was there any choke that you wanted to use?

Yoshida: I can't tell you that.

PRIDE: Is that because you're saving it for next time?

Yoshida: To tell the truth, there was a technique that I wanted to use.

PRIDE: Should we look forward to seeing that next time?

Yoshida: If I get the chance.

PRIDE: What did it feel like fighting in that stadium?

Yoshida: I was less nervous than I expected. It was the first time for me to fight outside and in a ring. It was also the first time for me to fight in front of so many people so I expected to be really nervous. Somehow I was able to be relaxed, though.

PRIDE: Helio Gracie asked that yesterday's match be declared a no-contest.

Yoshida: I don't really want to worry too much about that. It's up to the promoters to decide. I've done everything that I was supposed to do so there's nothing I can say about that. …He was probably out. I felt the power go out of him. That's why I thought he was out. (The choke) was in perfectly.

PRIDE: So you instinctively told the referee "he's out, he's out."

Yoshida: No, I said "Didn't he pass out?" I couldn't see him and I also didn't want to kill him. (laughing) I wasn't sure at all (if he was out) so I had to ask the referee. However, it would have been fine with me if we had kept going like that. As for the decision, I think the referee had the best position to see. I knew that his strength was gone but I don't know if he was out. If the fight hadn't been stopped I could have continued choking him. I'm confident that I could have choked him out.

PRIDE: Do you feel that you won?

Yoshida: In terms of the fight, yes. If there's a problem, there's nothing to do but leave it up to the promoters. I'm just glad I was able to get this new experience. That's the most important thing. What will happen from here, I leave that up to the promoters.

PRIDE: Do you think you'll continue these kinds of fights since you had such a good response?

Yoshida: It depends on the conditions. I'm not really sure right now. I'll consider it carefully when an offer comes.

PRIDE: Do you want to continue wearing your gi when you fight?

Yoshida: I'd like to keep wearing it. That is, IF I fight. If I don't have the gi, I can't do what I do best.

PRIDE: What do you think about gloves?

Yoshida: I don't know what kind of offer I'll get next. I'll have to think about it at that time.

PRIDE: Are you prepared to fight a fight with gloves?

Yoshida: I was practicing striking for a while but practice and a real match are different things. I'm not sure about it right now.

PRIDE: PRIDE's President Morishita announced that he would like to give you a formal offer to fight in PRIDE. What are you going to do?

Yoshida: Well, the offer hasn't come yet so… I think there'll probably be plenty of things to talk about if an offer comes.

PRIDE: According to Mr. Morishita, he'd be happy if you were Takada's opponent for his retirement match at the November Tokyo Dome event.

Yoshida: A pro fighter has to fight regardless of what kind of fighter their opponent is. But, that's assuming that I get an offer. I want to think positively, though. We'll have to see what the rules are.

PRIDE: What do you think of Takada?

Yoshida: I think he had a big role in building up the martial arts competition community. From my point of view, he's above the clouds.

PRIDE: What do you think about you name being mentioned as a possible opponent for his retirement match?

Yoshida: Well, I'm grateful. But, that doesn't mean I'll do it.

PRIDE: Can you get the mount and beat in someone's face?

Yoshida: If it was a normal fight, I couldn't. Why, do you want to fight? (laughing) I don't know. I think if I was in that position, I could decide but I've never been in that position. I think if that were part of the rules though, I would do it.

PRIDE: If you fight again, would you rather fight someone other than Royce?

Yoshida: Hmm, (the fight with Royce) left a bad taste in everyone's mouth but the fight was only a couple of days ago so I can't really say anything. If they want to fight again, I'll think about it. …There's no one that I really want to fight now. Right now, I'm going to take a break. I need to build more confidence in myself. My training period was too short and I need to learn more techniques. Muscles not necessary for judo must be built up, the feel of the fight is different and the time is different. If I want to win, I've got to practice and study all of these

[budo_spider]

Bardzo ciekawy wywiad. Co o nim myslicie?

[budo_wesley]

Royce nie jest w gardzie , ani w polgardzie , widac ze choke Yoshidy nie jest pelny , , Royce wypracowuje mala otwor na zlapanie oddechu , prubuje wjesc tam reka ...i koniec sedzia przerywa walke.
Sedzia byl z drugiej strony , nie widzial ze Royce ciagle pracowal , moim zdaniem duza pomylka.

If the fight hadn't been stopped I could have continued choking him. I'm confident that I could have choked him out.

Mam pytanie do tych co ogladali ta walke: Czy rzeczywiscie Yoshida mogl zadusic Royca (jak sam mowi), czy jednak Royce by wyszedl z tego (co wynika z obserwacji Seikena)?

Pozdrawiam

[budo_seiken]

Trudno powiedziec , jedno jest pewne Royce , na pewno nie byl "out" , caly czas pracowal nad wyjciem.
Czy Yoshida by go zadusil , nie mysle , ogladalem ten fragment kilka razy i mysle ze dal by sobie rade , jednak byl to "gi choke" i naprawde ciezko powiedziec czy byl konczacy czy nie.

[budo_martius]

[link widoczny dla zalogowanych Użytkowników]

Ja znalazlem tylko urywek koncowki - nie wiem co robila druga reka ale ta byla bierna tak samo jak nogi przestaly juz cokolwiek robic, twarz zapewne zakryta kimonem przeciwnika miala utrudnione oddychanie - osobiscie z tego co jest na filmiku to dla mnie jest to kwestia kilku sekund aby Yoshida zadusil Royca ktory przynajmniej od tej strony kamery przestal cokolwiek robic - no ale po tym filmiku niewiele widac i moge sie mylic

[budo_seiken]

Problem wychodzi nie z tego czy Royce by z tego wyszedl , problemem jest to ze ROyce nie klepal i nie odjechal a walka zostala przerwana.
Dywagacje czy by wyszedl czy Yoshida by go zadusil nie maja sensu bo walka sie skonczyla.

[budo_fiodor]

Obejrzałem filmik,
Royce odleciał widać to po bezwładnej ręcę, poza tym jak yoshida się podnosi nadal leży w tym "odlocie" zero ruchu... nie ma dalszego ciągu, ale to co zobaczyłem utwierdziło mnie że royce przegrał z yoshidą, no cóż był lepszy.

[budo_^hast^]

Widzialem kilka razy ten filmik, obserwacje:
Royce przestaje probowac poprawic swoja pozycje.
Royca reka zamiera w ruchu a potem staje sie bezwladna
Wnioski:
Byl w pozycji w ktorej byl na najleprzej drodze aby swoja pozycje poprawic, jednakze zaniechal tego, przestal sie ruszac a jego reka zaczela okazywac oznaki bezwladnosci. Nie poruszal sie a wiec nie pracowl juz nad swoja pozycja.
Wiec bardzo mozliwe, prawie pewne, iz duszenie dzialalo i Royce odplywal.
To i tak obecnie bez znaczenia. Sedzia walke przerwal i zwyciezca zostal uznany Yoshida.
Nie rozumiem do konca argumentu ze Royce nie klepal. O ile sie orientuje to royce nalezy do ludzi "nie klepiacych". Dobrym przykladem jest jego walka z Ismailem.
A w kit. Bez znaczenia. Royce przegral te walke. Do rewanzu przypuszczalnie nie dojdze. O ile pamietam to do rewanzu pomiedzy Sakuraba a Royelem Gracie , po "kontrowersyjnej" decyzji sedziego o przerwaniu walki, nie doszlo. A wtedy takze byla mowa o przypuszczalnym rewanzu. Wiec i tym razem ewentualny rewanz raczej jest malo prawdopodobny.

[budo_martius]

Problem wychodzi nie z tego czy Royce by z tego wyszedl , problemem jest to ze ROyce nie klepal i nie odjechal a walka zostala przerwana.
Dywagacje czy by wyszedl czy Yoshida by go zadusil nie maja sensu bo walka sie skonczyla.

Tak Seiken masz racje jesli Royce czy ktos z jego ekipy tylko mial poddac to sedzia nie powinien przerywac ale tu istnieje odwieczny problem sedziowania i bezpieczenstwa zawodnikow na zawodach - czy zareagowac przed calkowitym zejsciem zawodnika i ryzykowac posadzenie o przekrety czy czekac az calkowicie ktos zejdzie a potem go reanimowac niestety widzialem na zawodach kilka osob ktore zaciskaly zeby i nawet na dzwignie nie odklepywaly - potem wprowadzone zostalo dla bezpieczenstwa ze jesli sedzia widzi ze reka jest juz calowicie na przeproscie przerywa walke no ale wczesniej zanim to wprowadzono dwie rece w lokciach sie rozlecialy.
No ale coz a takie rozstrzygniecia jak w tej walce zawsze pole do dyskusji.

[budo_tomasz]

czy zauwazyliscie ze jak Royce zwiotczal to Yoshida podniosl glowe i powiedzial cos do sedziogo ktory zaraz przybiegl popatrzyl i przerwal walke? czy widzieliscie gdzies komentarz do tego co zostalo powiedzian i co to mialo znaczyc?

[budo_^hast^]

czy zauwazyliscie ze jak Royce zwiotczal to Yoshida podniosl glowe i powiedzial cos do sedziogo ktory zaraz przybiegl popatrzyl i przerwal walke? czy widzieliscie gdzies komentarz do tego co zostalo powiedzian i co to mialo znaczyc?

PRIDE: So you instinctively told the referee "he's out, he's out."
Yoshida: No, I said "Didn't he pass out?" I couldn't see him and I also didn't want to kill him. (laughing) I wasn't sure at all (if he was out) so I had to ask the referee. However, it would have been fine with me if we had kept going like that. As for the decision, I think the referee had the best position to see. I knew that his strength was gone but I don't know if he was out. If the fight hadn't been stopped I could have continued choking him. I'm confident that I could have choked him out.

Takie cos odnosnie tego iz niby Yoshida wolal sedziego aby ten przerwal walke.

[budo_tomasz]

dzieki Hast poklon

i tu8 pojawia sie pytanie co by sie moglo stac? powiedzmy ze sedzie nie przerwal by walki, Royce by nie klepal (dla mnie to on juz odjechal przy tym duszeniu, kiedys cwiczylem judo i widzialem takie reakcje) i co dalej...

wiecie moj koles ma taka teorie spiskowa belzebub
on bardzo nie lubie Gracie mimo ze cwiczy bjj, tzn on jest wdziczny Helio ale uwaza ze teraz to oni przesadzaja z komercjalizacji :twisted: i on twierdzi ze znajac ich przewalki to oto chodzilo tzn. jedyna mzoliwosc przegranej byla przez zaduszenie Royce wytrzyma i nie klepnie sedzia przerwie walke i bedzie no contest i jak zwykle wyjda na swoje (znaczy znow nie pzregrali 8) ) a moze sie uda i wygraja

ja wiem ze to teoria jak z archiwum X ale to ten sam koles co mi opowiadal o walkach jakie Gracie tocza w swoim dojo i zawsze jak przegraja to wkraczaja ich adwokaci i szczesliwy zwyciesca ciagany jest po sadach i nawet sie nie moze tym zwyciestwem pochwalic...

[budo_misiek2]

Witam!

czy zauwazyliscie ze jak Royce zwiotczal to Yoshida podniosl glowe i powiedzial cos do sedziogo ktory zaraz przybiegl popatrzyl i przerwal walke? czy widzieliscie gdzies komentarz do tego co zostalo powiedzian i co to mialo znaczyc?

Z wywiadu Yoshidy wynika, iż zapytał sędziego czy Royce przypadkiem nie "odpływa".

Wydaje mi się, po obejrzeniu końcówki walki, jak również po przeczytaniu wywiadu z Yoshidą, że w przypadku braku interwencji sędziego, Royc niechybnie "odpłynąłby". Pytanie czy sędzia miał prawo ingerować w walkę czy nie? Uważam, że skoro tam był to po to aby przestrzegać nie tylko ustalonych reguł, ale również czuwać nad zdrowiem i bezpieczeństwem zawodników.
Ja osobiście spotkałem się z przypadkiem (lata temu) kiedy zawodnik Wisły prowadził przez wazari i na około 6 sekund przed końcem walki wpadł w duszenie. Wszyscy zerwali się z okrzykiem Nie klep!!!. Nie poklepał, wygrał, walkę przerwał gong, ale potrzebna była pomóc lekarza.
Co by było gdyby nie gong i nie interwencja sędziego?

Z wywiadu wynika, że Yoshidzie udało się narzucić swój styl walki. Zawodnik, który jest w tarapatach raczej nie pyta sędziego, jak się czuje jego przeciwnik.

Misiek2

[budo_kubuś puchatek]

Ciekawe co japonski zawodnik mowil sedziemu, na chwile przed przerwaniem walki.?
K_P

[budo_fajter]

Ciekawe co japonski zawodnik mowil sedziemu, na chwile przed przerwaniem walki.?
K_P

slpey jestes? pare postow wyzej
[link widoczny dla zalogowanych Użytkowników]

[budo_kubuś puchatek]

Te odpowiedzi pokazaly sie rownolegle z moja... Wiec ich nie moglem przeczytac wczesniej.
K_P

[budo_fiodor]

No dobrze, a teraz co dalej z Royce i Yoshida?
Doczekamy się walki?

[budo_fiodor]

Właśnie obejrzałem całą walkę, no i powiem że definitywnie powinna być non contest nie można stwierdzić czy royce był zaduszony czy też nie, wiadomo że był duszony, a całą walkę określił bym jako 1:1.
Ci chwytacze powinni się spotkać raz jeszcze.
Jeśli się nie spotkają ponownie daję zwycięstwo yoshidzie.

[budo_martius]

Fiodor sciagnales skads cala walke ?? czy inna droga ja masz ??

Ja mam tylko ujecie kamery z drugiej strony czyli co robila w tym czasie reka z drugiej strony - z lewej nie robila zbyt wiele a z tej jak widac tez za duzo pod koniec juz nie dzialala - kurde z checia cala walke bym obejzal