31 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[budo_inkwell]

Ponieważ wywołałem temat solidnych zegarków na rózne okazje zamieszczam ciekawy tekst, ktorego autorem jest Jack Forster.
Moze komuś sie przyda.

"Purism comes in many different forms, depending on the paradigm one quixotically pursues. One of us may be fascinated with the complexity of ultra-complicated wristwatches, another the austere perfection of a fanatically hand finished handwound caliber. The highly specific tastes and needs of the collector stand often in a reciprocal relationship to the efforts of manufacturers, especially of the high horology pieces, who strive to outdo each other in inventing and reinventing pieces that will fire the imagination (and open the wallet) of the dedicated connoisseur.

But there is another kind of purism, a purism which takes no notice of aesthetics, the satisfaction of which is derived from the inverse relationship, anathema to the high horology connoisseur, between how well a watch executes its� functions and how possible it is to ignore it. The appearance of this class of watches, is a symptom of the centuries-long gradual divergence of aesthetics and function, which has been tied to the rise of mass-produced consumer goods, many of which are only as good as they need to be and no more. But unlike many of the poorly designed or downright shoddy children of the assembly line which consumers purchase every day, a surprising number of modern watches which fly below the radar of the high horology collector exhibit such successful fulfillment of their functional requirements as to almost stand alone, and certainly stand out, from mass production consumer goods in general.

I have often noticed many of us have one or more �fine� watches, and then, rattling around loose in a drawer no doubt, a �beater� or �weekend� watch, which may, paradoxically, offer much better functionality than the more refined pieces in the jewelry box or on the winder. But there�s a group of individuals who wear �beater� watches on an everyday basis- and the beater the better, as far as these users are concerned. These are the men and women who work in a uniquely extreme and demanding environment: the members of the armed forces. In pursuit of watches that express the extreme end of functionality and reliability, I canvassed several deep background sources in the military, and after having received responses from members of the USAF (including the Air Force Rescue Group), pilots of go-fast military jets (one of whom has just returned from flying block 52 F-16�s in the Gulf) and members of units which fall under the rubric of Special Operations, I have some interesting results to report.

What the ultimate tool wristwatch is, of course, depends on the job at hand. What is slightly surprising about the results I�ve obtained is that there is quite a bit of variation and difference of opinion on how to achieve the sought for result of optimum reliability, bearing out the old expression that even in the rule-bound environment of the military, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and personal preference has some bearing on the tool chosen. Let�s look at some groups of users and what they like.

Pilots: The fast jet set seems to like a dual digital-analog design. LED watches are difficult to read at an angle, and many pilots don�t seem to like the idea of having to take their hand off the yoke to read the time. Why wear a watch at all- well, pilots like redundancy, especially of critical systems, and time is everything in flying. While an analog time display is preferred, a large, legible LCD for other functions is the choice of many pilots since a cluttered dial, especially one with many tiny subdials, just isn�t easy enough to read in the demanding environment of a modern military aircraft. Mechanical chronographs represent a legitimate link to a bygone era of aviation, and there are some pilots who go against the grain and hew to a pure analog design or even a mechanical analog chronograph, but the bulk of these would appear to be civilian aviators. Pilots seem to represent a surprisingly diverse range of choices; flyers kind enough to respond to my queries use, among others, the Omega X-33 (a lot of praise for the intelligence of design on this one, though the shiny bezel appears to have been dictated by marketing rather than functional considerations; also the usefully very loud alarm, which can actually be heard over engine noise and through headsets, has been mentioned) the Timex Ironman, the Casio G-Shock, and various Breitling and Chase-Durer models, among others. The Citizen Navitimer and Skyhawk also have professional fans, although the displays are usually thought too small, and many �real� pilots, especially military aviators, reject them for this reason and for the absence of a light source for the LCD displays, a fatal flaw for many combat pilots.

The presence of whiz wheels on the bezel draws varying opinions- many professional pilots regard them as useless gewgaws but there is a minority that like them for cocktail napkin estimates of fuel and flight times while planning flight itineraries in a non-cockpit environment. Even the issue of a GMT function is debated; some pilots insist on a watch that displays Zulu time, since interactions with flight controllers are conducted with reference to it; others wonder aloud (and sometimes disparagingly) what�s so darned hard about remember how many hours to add or subtract from your local time to get GMT/Zulu time. Watches used in the cockpit of an aircraft are apt to be exposed to a lot of banging around, so durability is an issue.

One interesting reason many pilots prefer quartz over mechanical, aside from the display issue (and by the way not a single military pilot interviewed for this article uses a mechanical chronograph) is that quartz watches have a binary failure mode- either they�re working and keeping time, or they�ve crapped out and you know it. A mechanical watch may start to run critically slow in a way that is not obvious immediately to the pilot- especially one who�s dealing with whatever demanding problems lead to needing to rely on a wristwatch in the first place!- and you definitely don�t want to still be half an hour away from an airstrip when you�re bingo fuel because your mechanical watch started to slow imperceptibly down. To be fair to the mech enthusiasts this is an unlikely scenario- those of us with well maintained mechanical chronographs know just how rugged and reliable a good one can be- but pilots aren�t betting people by and large, and they like to know what�s what with their instruments.

Pilots flying at night, incidentally, really appreciate the Indiglo display, which won�t bloom night vision goggles. Probably a lot of Ironman and G-Shock watches used by guys flying SpecOps Blackhawks, although I am unaware of any such operation or operations, nor would I be disposed to discuss such an operation if in fact it had occurred. Sir.

Space flight- much has already been written on the subject, and any WIS worth his salt knows that there are only 4 watches currently officially fligh qualified by NASA for use by astronaut crews: the Omega X-33, the Timex Ironman, the Omega Speedmaster Professional, and the ubiquitous Casio G-Shock, in this case the DW 5600E version with the electroluminescent display.

Special Operators (e.g. Army Rangers, Green Berets, Delta Force; also SWAT/HRT teams which have similar requirements): Snake eaters seem to mostly go digital, although there are some differences of opinion in this regard as well. Light control is a BIG deal in a SpecOps environment; looking at an Indiglo display on a dark night when there�s a hostile sniper looking for a target of opportunity can get you a round through your wrist. Such extraneous light sources can fatally compromise stealth, so much so that they are sometimes called �shoot me here� lights. SOG (special operations group) personnel in the most recent unpleasantnesses in Afghanistan and Iraq seem to gravitate towards the Ironman and the Suunto quartz digital sports watches (one respondent said that pretty much most of the SOG guys he saw were wearing Suunto Advizors), with the G-Shock making an appearance as well. I have seen pictures of operators wearing the Ironman, as well as a member of a Marine Expeditionary Unit with his G-Shock strapped to the barrel of his battle rifle . Shock resistant indeed!

Extreme environments in general seem to call for a quartz digital watch, with some sort of illumination, and with a high degree of resistance to physical abuse. Given the phenomenal utility of the G-Shock and its� brethren, how could they be improved upon?

The Achille�s heel of quartz watches and the fatal flaw to their utility has always been the power source: a modern watch no matter how well armored is only as reliable as its� battery, and batteries are vulnerable to the exigencies of storage, temperature, and unpredictability of drain. The only thing standing in the way of unreproachable functionality- the battery- is nowadays addressed by either a user powered internal generator, such as the Seiko Kinetic or the ETA Mecha-Quartz, or through the expedient of solar/light power, such as the Citizen Eco-Drive or the G-Shock Tough Solar. For the extreme environment user, solar must offer a more attractive option than a rotor driven generator, which increases parts and decreases reliability. Presently the Tough Solar line comes in a fantastic variety of incarnations, including the ProTrek, which offers sensors for barometric pressure, altitude, and temperature; tide and moonphase models, and a tele-memo model which offers worldtime for thirty cities and stores passwords and telephone numbers. All these for under 200 USD. No doubt the upcoming months will see solar incarnations of the Suunto and Ironman sports watches as well. New high performance capacitors and storage batteries allow for the use of even high drain functions frequently, and power save modes, during which the display powers down, allow one to keep the watch in a drawer for a year or more only to have it spring back to life upon exposure to light. Barring an occasional strap replacement, and possibly a new capacitor/rechargeable battery decades after purchase, an expenditure of 100 USD or less now bids fair to enable the extreme use watch buyer to purchase a timepiece which may well outlast the buyer- especially one in a combat environment! Undoubtedly as well, the tool watch will continue to evolve, as material science evolves stronger case materials and microchips allow for more functions (how about a solar powered PDA watch?) but the last piece of the puzzle- the evolution of a reliable autonomous power source- is at last in place.

The other day I stopped at a big electronics shop on 14th street here in New York, and walked out with a Casio G-Shock DW 5600, the model flight approved by NASA for shuttle crews, for 35 USD. After the initial discomfort of switching to a digital display, I must admit the charm of getting a piece of aerospace grade equipment that will last for decades for less than my weekly dry cleaning bill, is considerable! Pure functionality, like the pure relentless pursuit of high horological art, is not without its� own charms, and the G-Shock and its� unassuming brethren express a kind of unique and very high quality worth experiencing and appreciating on their own terms- rare in any manufactured item, and, at that price point, nothing short of miraculous.

Thanks for reading!

Afterword: Thanks to all the members of the armed forces who contributed information for this piece- I�d like to especially thank my brother Anthony, a writer for Janes� Information Group and a freelance open source intelligence analyst and security consultant, for providing access. Any errors in matters of fact are mine, and I would appreciate both comments and corrections. Hope you had as much fun reading this as I did writing it!
"

[budo_blacha]

super
szkoda że nie wszyscy płynnie kumaja po angielskiemu

[budo_gilotyna]

super
szkoda że nie wszyscy płynnie kumaja po angielskiemu

Ja nie kumam płynnie po angielsku, ale po coś ludzie wymyślili słowniki :wink: no i zwalczyłem ten text. Widzisz Blacha, a ty na swojego G-Shocka narzekałeś, a tu masz... 8)

[budo_blacha]

no mam mam tylko nie wiem co a w słownikach po slowie nie bede kopiował
kiedyś mialem gdzies jakis słownik co to cae fragmenty extu sie wstawiało ale sens wtedy tłumaczenia byl conajmniej niejednoznaczny i dziwny

[budo_cynik]

Blacha nie siedz w strachu! Jak znajde chwile czasu to ci to streszcze mniej wiecej jakos bo za dlugie coby tlumaczyc calosc

[budo_blacha]

no właśnie
nie da sie tego w 2-3 zdaniach streścić ??

[budo_gilotyna]

no właśnie
nie da sie tego w 2-3 zdaniach streścić ??

Może tak - jak by nie patrzeć, to wszyscy (czy to piloci, czy komandosi) używają różnych dobrych marek (Omega, Citizen, Casio, Timex i takie tam...), ale zawsze pojawia się G-Shock. Jeden koleś miał ten zegarek przypięty na lufie karabinu - faktycznie - "odporny na wstrząsy". Poza tym model G-Shock'a używany w NASA kosztuje 35 USD 8O A tak na marginesie, to chyba Ernest Emerson nosi Omege X-33, ale mogę się mylić. Piękny zegarek...

[budo_seiken]

Dobry text , z jednego sie ucieszylem , facet , piszac o tym dlaczego niektorzy nie uzywaja zegarkow z LED , napisal idealnie to dlaczego wlasnie ja ich nie uzywam , sa po prostu trudne do odczytania w zmiennych warunkach oswietlenia ( nie zawsze masz mozliwosc by uzywac drugiej reki ) .

[budo_blacha]

kiedyś mialem casio taki coś półka niżej od G-Shocka - przycisk podświetlania lekko wystawał
pamiętam że jak mialem jedną ręke wolną to po prostu o coś stukałem zegarkiem (często o czoło) i tak zapalało sie podświetlenie na ok 2 sek. - idealnie żeby zerknąć.

[budo_ciulkwens]

nooo Blacha
ty to masz glowe!!

[budo_gilotyna]

Seiken wiem, że to "nie Twoja liga", ale miałeś kiedyś jakiegoś G-Shocka. Bo za tę cenę okazują się byc całkiem rozsądnym zegarkeim, a opinie tez zbiera nie złe... Dziwi mnie tylko, dlaczego nie padła w tym artykule nazwa Luminox? Nie używaja, czy to jesp po prostu zbyt oczywiste, by o tym pisać?

[budo_blacha]

gilotyna raz sie z Tobą zgodze
dla mnie G-Shock to rewelka zegarek, nie chadzam w gajerach zbyt często ani w strojach oficjalnych, do normalnych ciuchów czy pseudo militarnych pasuje jak ulał
no i dla mnie to towar wyższopółkowy jak na moje możliwości i w podobnej cenie nic bardziej pancernego chyba nie ma.
A może sie myle ??
może są jakies bardziej "klasyczne" zegarki pancerne za rozsądną (dla mnie czyli - niską dla was ;-) ) cene ??
ja niekoniecznie sie wyznaje
może ktoś ma jakies propozycje ??

[budo_super]

ja tam uzywam Timex'a od chyba juz 6 lat. w chlodzie zimnie garącu i innych extremalnych warunkach. Skakal ze mna ze spadochronem i pędził z zawrotna prędkością na tyrolce.
Oczywiście woda i inne niespodziewanki mu nie szkodzą.
kilka razy go poobijałem. raz nawet konkretnie o zęby napastnika
I wszystko git. Jedyne co mnie martwi to fakt że one nie wytzrymuja tzreciej zmiany baterii. A ta juz niedługo

[budo_vince]

jak to nie wytrzymuja, moglbys wyjasnic ?

[budo_uwak]

po prostu sie zmeczaja
nie robi juz timex wiecznych zegarkow w nizszej polce
po to zebys qpil nowy po 3 - 5 latach
proste
ja mialem kiedys taki dla nurkow - przekrzywiony wzgledem osi paska
pancerna konstrukcja - metalowa kapsula obciagnieta guma
tylko zostawilem go w szafce z chemia na szkutni i po tygodniu przyciski sie rozlalzy doslownie od tej chemii
teram mam timexa z metalowa koperta i paskiem - calkiem fajny design
ale zegarek to juz raczej szmelc - TIMEX SIE ZJEBAL !!! jako marka
albo po prostu ma nowy marketing - zeby je czesciej kupowac
wrzuce fote spodu - przez 4 lata ZTARLY SIE PO KOLEJI (od reki ???):
nikiel/chrom , miedź ,cus z czego zrobiona jest cala koperta sie wyzarlo pod tym
tylko od reki ......

[budo_uwak]

zreszta pan zegar mistrz sam powiedzial - bedacy markowym serwisantem timexow - ze te zegarki sie zjebaly i ze jak chce "zegarek" to zebym na seiko
zerknal albo co inne ....bo casio / timex to zabawki na max + jedna baterie ( jedna wymiana ) czyli 3 do 6 lat i nara ...

[budo_vince]

wrzuce fote spodu - przez 4 lata ZTARLY SIE PO KOLEJI (od reki ???):
nikiel/chrom , miedź ,cus z czego zrobiona jest cala koperta sie wyzarlo pod tym
tylko od reki ......

ale jaja

[budo_dark]

hehe ja powiem wiecej:

pancerna konstrukcja - metalowa kapsula obciagnieta guma

[budo_uwak]

dark - to byl naprawde pancerny zegarek - nie pamietam nazwy modelu ( "cos" 200 )
gruba puszka i na to dopiero gruba gumowa nakladka - dawalo sie ja zdjac -
tym zegarkiem rzucalem z 2 pietra z okno - zaklady z kolega - i nic mu sie nie stalo .....do momentu az szlag trafil przyciski od chemi ...
charakterystyczna cecha bylo to ze calosc byl przekrecona o kilkanascie stopni w prawo - tzn os 12 - 6 wzgledem paska ....

[budo_super]

nie narzekam na mojego Timex'a ale rzeczywiście zegarmistrz mówil mi że nastpnej wymiany bateri nie wytrzyma -znaczy sie jest na 3 do 4 zmian. bateria wytzrymuje ok 2-3lata zaleznie od częstotliwości uzytkowania np. podświetlacza. troche szkoda mi mojego Timex'a ale no cóz i tak wytrzymal najwiecej z wszystkich moich zegarkow